Quick Help wanted...Need glue or adhesive advice

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 7:17 pm

I am creating a graduated ground color on glass with BE powders and frits. I have run out of klyr-fire and want these pieces for tomorrow morning.

I want something that doesn't dry, is not tacky or dries slowly ot give me lots of open time to work with it (or else I'd use my favorite hairspray). I have been using klyr-fire to coat the glass, apply powders, manipulate and add more powders. Not crazy about the klyr fire, but it's what I have.

I have A-13 and glycerine, but haven't used either of those with BE powders either, only Paradise Paints...Could I use 3 in One oil? or painting mediums like clove and lavender oils and expect that they would burn off cleanly?

Any help is greatly appreciated so I can get these in the kiln tonight. I am running on a deadline and don't want to lose any time or have any boo boos.

Thanks in advance.

lissa · Post by **lissa** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 8:21 pm

Cynthia, I have used Sprite as a medium for BE powders lots of times, however, I don't know how or if it would work with frit because it isn't even as sticky as klyr fire and may not hold large frit well. But I have had great success with the powders and Sprite, I really like the long working time and the fluidity. Just a thought...good luck, last minute dilemmas are no fun!

lissa.

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Thu Jul 31, 2003 11:11 pm

Cynthia

I thought that I responded to your post, but it is not there now.

Aloe vera gel works. I think that the lavender and clove oils will work. I don't know what A 13 is but if it is a water mixable medium for powdered Paradise paints it will also work. I would pick clove over lavender oil because it is thicker and stickier.

My guess is that Klyr fire contains ethylene glycol (RV winterizer), glycerine, TSP or dish soap and who knows what else.

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:09 am

Okie dokie. A-13 (Water Friendly medium) it is with a little thinning to make it last. I think that klyr fire and A-13 are similar beasts, but not sure to be honest.

I have everything set up to go, now to put on the powders and frits...and in the morining I'll see.

Then I will put in a few test tiles with Sprite and the other on hand mediums to see what I get with the those. I'll try the 3 in One oil too.

Off to work then.

Patty Gray · Post by **Patty Gray** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:47 am

CMC would be something you could use as well as Thompon Enamels A-1 (Klyr-Fire is A-3). Good luck. Patty

Cynthia · Post by **Cynthia** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:05 pm

Well, I used the A-13 and it worked well. Yipee. Since it was a late night anyway, I threw in a couple of test tiles using all the potential meduims in the studio.

I used the clove and lavendar oils, 3 in One and pine oil (found it as I was rummaging for other mediums, but hate the odor). the water friendly mediums I tried were Sprite, more hairspray than I typically use (puddled it instead of sprayed) and plain old distilled water.

When I opened the kiln this morning, I was afraid that mixing all those mediums (cellulose, alcohol, sugar, water....) into one firing was a mistake, but all came out clean as could be. The studio still stinks from all the smelly oils I used last night, but the kilns are in an outbuilding...so fortunately the burn off happened there. I'll use up the oils, but will stick with water based mediums for the long run.

Surprisingly, the distilled water alone worked just fine. I was able to manipulate the frits, pile them up deep enough and move to the kiln with out incident. I suppose that by simply being wet, the frit clung together, and even as it started to dry it was still really workable.

I don't yet know how feasible it is to simply use distilled water for frits, but I'm going to see how far I can take it. You can't beat the price, nor how eco friendly it is.

We'll see.

Paul Tarlow · Post by **Paul Tarlow** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 12:29 pm

Bert Weiss wrote:Cynthia

I thought that I responded to your post, but it is not there now.

Aloe vera gel works. I think that the lavender and clove oils will work. I don't know what A 13 is but if it is a water mixable medium for powdered Paradise paints it will also work. I would pick clove over lavender oil because it is thicker and stickier.

My guess is that Klyr fire contains ethylene glycol (RV winterizer), glycerine, TSP or dish soap and who knows what else.

The aloe vera is an interesting one. I had never heard of using that until I visited Sydenstricker a couple weeks ago -- that's what they use and they do a lot of layered stencils.

The other interesting thing about Sydenstricker is they have these people sifting powders all day long and none of them wear masks.

- Paul

Bert Weiss · Post by **Bert Weiss** » Fri Aug 01, 2003 2:30 pm

Paul Tarlow wrote:
Bert Weiss wrote:Cynthia

I thought that I responded to your post, but it is not there now.

Aloe vera gel works. I think that the lavender and clove oils will work. I don't know what A 13 is but if it is a water mixable medium for powdered Paradise paints it will also work. I would pick clove over lavender oil because it is thicker and stickier.

My guess is that Klyr fire contains ethylene glycol (RV winterizer), glycerine, TSP or dish soap and who knows what else.
The aloe vera is an interesting one. I had never heard of using that until I visited Sydenstricker a couple weeks ago -- that's what they use and they do a lot of layered stencils.

The other interesting thing about Sydenstricker is they have these people sifting powders all day long and none of them wear masks.

- Paul

Aparently nobody has complained to OSHA. Imagine a job sifting frit over somebody else's stencils all day, making flowers and other kitschy stuff, then imagine doing that with a mask on all day. Not a job I'd like either way. Sydenstricker fills lotso kilns every day, all summer, and sells everything. People gobble it up, "collectors".

Last I knew, a few years ago, they were making their own frits. They had a gallery in my local town, back a few years ago, but the collectors weren't here like down the cape.

Cheryl Wade · Post by **Cheryl Wade** » Fri Aug 08, 2003 6:04 pm

Bit late with a suggestion, I've been away. Gum Arabic diluted with water works very well with powders & frit - good adhesion and workability and it burns off cleanly with no smell. Cheryl

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Sun Aug 24, 2003 12:21 pm

Paul Tarlow wrote:The other interesting thing about Sydenstricker is they have these people sifting powders all day long and none of them wear masks.

- Paul

Paul,

Stopped by Sydenstricker yesterday on the way back from my Mom's house to take a good look at their setups. Each workstation is a clear plexiglass hood (3 walls and a roof) which separate the workspace from the visitors who are watching. It also controls the beautiful Cape Cod Bay breezes from turning their frit powder flower patterns into blurs. At the far side of each workspace is a full width ventilation grill that is probably filtered. It sucks air into the hood to the far side of their workspace then down into the workbench and controls where the airborne powders go (always away from the artist and the workpiece). They also have depressed areas in the worktop which have screened inlets where they set their weights (used to hold their manila folder stencils in place) and where they set their sifters (standard Thompson Enamel red sifters).

I also noticed that they use a lot of mixed powders... very light blue opal mixed with white and just a touch of either dark blue or black powder which they use as a base, followed by other color blends.

Tony