gold leaf/ mica powder

Bonnie Rubinstein · Post by **Bonnie Rubinstein** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:05 am

Hi Folks,
I'm looking for advice to integrate gold mica and gold leaf ( not together) in my fused pieces. Seems to burn out. Any advice from experienced users? Much appreciated!

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 10:38 am

A single layer of gold leaf will usually burn out at full fuse temperatures so you will have to use multiple layers of leaf or use gold foil. You will also notice that leaf will become more diffuse at the edges where it thins out... this can be a nice effect. Experimentation is the key here.

As far as micas, the most even coating is achieved by airbrushing. I use Klyr-Fire and a little alcohol to speed the drying. Put it on dry (more air to medium in your airbrush mix) and layer many coats (10 or 12). After firing, most of the mica will brush off but you should have an even layer of mica adhered to the glass. You get a nice, matte finish when firing at the low end of the full fuse temperatures. If you overfire, the mica will have more of a semi-gloss surface than a matte finish... again, experimentation is the key here. The micas (and the gold) show up best on dark opal glass, but it depends on the effect that you are looking for.

Micas used between the glass can produce a nice effect, but too much can cause undesirable bubbles.

Tony

Bonnie Rubinstein · Post by **Bonnie Rubinstein** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:03 am

Thanks, Tony..
I had heard you need to 'cap' the work with clear glass when working with leaf or powder.. is this true.
Also, leaf is very costly- several layers would be even more so. But I will try it.

Are there any other methods to get interesting effects ( besides the mica and leaf) in the glass?

Bonnie

ecosource@pressenter.com

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 11:54 am

Interesting effects are what fusing is all about and what many of the advanced classes will cover.

You do not have to cap the glass with either gold or mica, but you can. I like the look of mica on the surface and if you go through the gallery, you will see a number of pieces that incorporate micas as a surface treatment.

Two years ago, I did magnets comprised of a quarter sheet of gold leaf crumpled up, placed on a square of black glass and capped with clear glass then brought to a full fuse. I love the look and I've made a number of bracelets the same way.

Tony

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:52 pm

Bonnie,

This is 23Â¾carat gold leaf sandwiched between BE black and a clear cap;

I've made a series of these items, the gold doesn't burn or feg out because it doesn't melt until 1063 degrees centigrade and these items fused at 800 degC (1945 and 1472 degF, respectively).

Bonnie Rubinstein · Post by **Bonnie Rubinstein** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 6:11 pm

Paul and Tony-
you both did get great results..

I am using system 96, and Tony..I fused at 1450, and it did burn out- maybe it was b/c I used some frit to separate the 2 layers of glass, allowing for gases to emitâ€¦. Maybe this caused the burn out.. I will try again! But the look you achieved, is what I am striving for. Any thoughts?

Thanks!

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 9:29 pm

If you look at Paul's piece, you can see where the gold leaf laid over itself... this gives the most intense gold color. The edges where the gold is just a single layer is quite transparent and diffuses into the glass... this was what I was talking about earlier and Pauls piece illustrates it quite clearly.

Folding it over or laying on multiple layers will give you these effects... it can't be done with a single layer of gold leaf. If you want it to look like Paul's piece, you'll have to pay for the extra gold.

Tony

PaulS · Post by **PaulS** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 4:40 am

Exactly what Tony said. The single layer of gold is so fine, it looks like the skeleton of a natural leaf when it is dry, dry.

You don't need bits of frit between the layers to allow trapped air to escape, because the leaf is so thin, Bonnie. 1,000 leaves of gold are still thinner than a gnat's hair I'm told.

Are you sure the gold you used was the real thing and not gold-coloured foil, as in cigarette packet liner kind of gold foil? That is gold coloured aluminium foil and melts at 660 degC (1220 degF).

Ask a local signwriter where he gets his gold from and other metals like Platignum (Paladium some call it), gold suppliers will supply you direct.

There are different shades. English gold looks redder and warmer than French which looks lemon yellow and because they are pure, they hold their colour after firing.

I've read people on this very board say that BE supply a thicker kind that you can cut with scissors, perhaps our erudite friends at BE could direct you further.

Dictionary & chips for breakfast

coolntn · Post by **coolntn** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:25 am

I've tinkered with the BE gold foil before...and like all foils...is so thin it cannot be cut with scissors. It will just 'shred' apart on you.

I did find one layer of it kept it's color and didn't burn out much at all except around the edges a little and that was probably around 1450 sandwiched between black and clear.

Sonje · Post by **Sonje** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 7:54 am

I'm glad this post was started...I have both gold and silver leaf on hand and have not tried it yet. Should I use any glue to adhere it onto the glass? Thanks, Sonje

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 8:25 am

Sonje wrote:I'm glad this post was started...I have both gold and silver leaf on hand and have not tried it yet. Should I use any glue to adhere it onto the glass? Thanks, Sonje

To help hold the leaf or foil to glass, just use a little light oil. Something like sewing machine oil will work. You don't need very much, one drop should be enough to cover an acre of glass.

Clean your glass and apply a little oil and wipe off 99% of it with a paper towel, then apply your leaf. The oil will burn off clean if you don't use much.

Ron

K Okahashi · Post by **K Okahashi** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:16 am

Having experienced what Paul stated above, I can say, make sure it is real gold you are using. I bought my first batch from a large wholesaler only to find it was not as "pure" as others- thus major burn out. Not all wholesalers know what they are selling (we are dealing with sales people) some large glass wholesalers may not even have fusers on staff to test these things.

I did find another source and it has by far, much better results. You will have to use more than one sheet though but it will be worth it.

Good luck!

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:20 am

Ron Coleman wrote:
Sonje wrote:I'm glad this post was started...I have both gold and silver leaf on hand and have not tried it yet. Should I use any glue to adhere it onto the glass? Thanks, Sonje
To help hold the leaf or foil to glass, just use a little light oil. Something like sewing machine oil will work. You don't need very much, one drop should be enough to cover an acre of glass.

Clean your glass and apply a little oil and wipe off 99% of it with a paper towel, then apply your leaf. The oil will burn off clean if you don't use much.

Ron

While it may appear that the oil burns off cleanly, if you sandblast the gold, you'll find the surface below the gold is severely pitted... not sure what causes this, but my guess is that the trapped oil vapor has something to do with it since the gold isn't really porous.

Tony

Bonnie Rubinstein · Post by **Bonnie Rubinstein** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 9:29 am

Thanks for all the input, fellow artisans!

Yes, I am using real gold leaf, from Ed Hoy's. I know the fake 'stuff' doesn't work- I had already tried that, too. I use klyr-fire to adhere. ( like a glue)
So, today I will try 2 layers of leaf, and no frit to separate the glass, and keep my fingers crossed when I hit 1450.

Will keep you posted...

Bonnie

Ron Coleman · Post by **Ron Coleman** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 11:23 am

Tony Smith wrote:
Ron Coleman wrote:
Sonje wrote:I'm glad this post was started...I have both gold and silver leaf on hand and have not tried it yet. Should I use any glue to adhere it onto the glass? Thanks, Sonje
To help hold the leaf or foil to glass, just use a little light oil. Something like sewing machine oil will work. You don't need very much, one drop should be enough to cover an acre of glass.

Clean your glass and apply a little oil and wipe off 99% of it with a paper towel, then apply your leaf. The oil will burn off clean if you don't use much.

Ron
While it may appear that the oil burns off cleanly, if you sandblast the gold, you'll find the surface below the gold is severely pitted... not sure what causes this, but my guess is that the trapped oil vapor has something to do with it since the gold isn't really porous.

Tony

I've seen the same thing when sandblasting off mica powders. Pitting under the powders leaves the design pattern on the blasted piece.

Ron

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 12:05 pm

coolntn wrote:I've tinkered with the BE gold foil before...and like all foils...is so thin it cannot be cut with scissors. It will just 'shred' apart on you.

put it between two pieces of paper, draw on the paper your outline, and cut all 3 layers. the gold won't tear that way.

Alice DeGraff · Post by **Alice DeGraff** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:07 pm

Bonnie wrote:Thanks for all the input, fellow artisans!

Yes, I am using real gold leaf, from Ed Hoy's. I know the fake 'stuff' doesn't work- I had already tried that, too. I use klyr-fire to adhere. ( like a glue)
So, today I will try 2 layers of leaf, and no frit to separate the glass, and keep my fingers crossed when I hit 1450.

Will keep you posted...

Bonnie

Bonnie do you mind sharing Ed Hoy's telephone number???
Thank you Alice De

charlie · Post by **charlie** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:14 pm

Alice DeGraff wrote:Bonnie do you mind sharing Ed Hoy's telephone number???
Thank you Alice De

dags

http://www.edhoy.com/

Tony Smith · Post by **Tony Smith** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:18 pm

Ron Coleman wrote: I've seen the same thing when sandblasting off mica powders. Pitting under the powders leaves the design pattern on the blasted piece.

Ron

Ron, would you elaborate on what you said? I've blaseted a lot of mica and have never seen the type of pitting that I've observed with using oil and foils... I have had an occasion or two where my glass got downright spongey under a coating, but that's pretty rare. I've seen that happen with irid, dichro and micas too.

Tony

Bonnie Rubinstein · Post by **Bonnie Rubinstein** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:36 pm

Hi Alice De,

Ed Hoy's #, near Chicago, is 1-800-323-5668.

Bonnie

WarmGlass.com