Insurance for international shipping?

[Carol Cohen]

I'll be shipping a large glass piece (87 seoarate sheets of painted glass up to 4 ft. long) to Europe and started phoning around locally (Boston) to find out how to insure its replacement value, which is about $10K. Have been told, We don't do that, We won't do that, Get it professionally appraised first, and finally, Self-insure. Which would mean essentially, take the loss, if there's any breakage.

Anybody have any suggestions? A fine-arts packing and shipping company would charge about $5K for packing, shipping and delivery.

Carol Cohen
<http://www.carolcohen.com

[Cynthia]

I had a similar experience. NOT overseas shipping but just trying to get a body of work that was being shipped across the country...a Marine Rider to my business policy was the answer to actually getting it insured, but even then it ended up being far too pricey and worthless when you figured out what they would actually cover if damaged (Nil). Every agent we spoke with about insuring the work said...forget it, they wouldn't insure it no matter what we called it.

I am not trying to be a naysayer, nor do I know for a fact that it isn't doable at an affordable rate...but I learned what you are learning, which is that getting it insured for an affordable amount is near impossible. 50% of the value is robbery....so I took the risk and self insured. I packed the work myself in HDPE crates that were nearly bulletproof and took the risk. It arrived... after being handled by several machines, trucks pallette jacks, forklifts, creepy dock workers who couldn't have cared less if what was inside was indestructible or a live animal....safe and sound.

Perhaps you need to find a way to crate the work that is near indestructable and then take the risk. Get foam from Upholstery shops, they give up their scrap for free, and might sell sheets at cost plus. The combination of foam (not injected) and shredded paper worked exceptionally well for me. The work is insulated, yet if knocked about the paper and foam take the impact and not the glass. Double crate leaving an impact zone around the outer and inner crate too. Maybe your best and most affordable insurance is spent on the crates?


You asked for help, I gave you an anectdote. I hope you find your solution.

[Bert Weiss]

I'll be shipping a large glass piece (87 seoarate sheets of painted glass up to 4 ft. long) to Europe and started phoning around locally (Boston) to find out how to insure its replacement value, which is about $10K. Have been told, We don't do that, We won't do that, Get it professionally appraised first, and finally, Self-insure. Which would mean essentially, take the loss, if there's any breakage.

Anybody have any suggestions? A fine-arts packing and shipping company would charge about $5K for packing, shipping and delivery.

Carol Cohen
<http://www.carolcohen.com

Carol

OFf the top of my head, the people who have the most experience with shipping to and from Europe would be Heller Gallery.

What about a company that moves people's belongings overseas?

My guess is that how it is packed and shipped can be the most important factor. No matter what, you want to avoid the need for a claim.

[Amy Schleif-Mohr]

Ok, I have another question that might be on a larger note.

Does anyone self insure their work when it's in a gallery? I know many people just rely on the gallery's insurance, but I was talking with one of the owners of a gallery I'm in and their agent was pushing them to not insure the work and that the artist should be the one carrying the insureance. Now I kinda have a beef with this opinion because the work isn't in my control when the work is in the gallery. If this is the trend then what do we do. I have tried to get insurance for my work that is in galleries from the people who I have liability insurance with. They won't insure for breakage or theft. Ok, but the finished work that is in my studio waiting to be shipped is insured for breakage and theft.

I'm just wondering if anyone has gotten insurance for thier work that is not in thier control.

Amy

[gone]

Delores Taylor might be able to answer your questions. She shipped work to an exhibition in England. The only way they would insure it for more than 15 cents a pound , was to have it professionally appraised, which cost a small fortune and was a bit of a hassle. I'll be seeing her tonight, so I'll ask her come on the board and respond.

Els

[ellen abbott]

We have occassion to ship our architectural glass. We use a professional packer who specializes in fragile goods. I don't know how he does it, but all our shipments are insured. Doesn't make it any easier or quicker to file a claim, but the one time stuff broke, they did pay up. The only times we have shipped overseas, either the client handled the shipping (had a huge container going already), or the architect/designer did.

The point is, you might see if you have any professional packers in your area who could handle it for you.

Ellen
http://www.emstudioglass.com

[Amy Schleif-Mohr]

Ellen,

Good to know but my guess would be that the professional packer was the one with the insurance that paid. The one time I did have a piece professionally packed, granted it was MBE, the piece broke because they didn't know how to pack glass. (only 1 box with foam in place, bad combo) Anyway, MBE's insureance was the one who ultimately paid me not UPS. So, in learning from my mistake I have gone to great lengths to learn how to pack my sculptures for shipping. I have found a shipper that will only insure for $500 but they let me wood crate everything and they don't have ground service so everything is flown, all for less than UPS. The last piece I shipped was from Milwaukee to Santa Fe and was 175lbs. I had it 3 day aired for $83. Not bad. Oh, and nothing was broken.

whew!

Amy

I'm still wondering about insureance at galleries though. That is really my concern.

[ellen abbott]

It was actually insured through the shipper, but insured in his name so he had to make the claim. He did pay me for replacing the panels before he got paid however which was really nice. Flat glass should be shipped on edge (I figure you might know this already but just in case). It is stronger and less prone to break that way. My guy builds wood crates with styrafoam and cardboard. He says it's the cardboard that absorbs the impact. He builds A-frame crates so the glass stays on edge and the crate can't be laid down flat. The very few times something has arrived broken, it's been obvious the box was mis-handled.

As for consignment galleries, I have only one experience there. They broke a piece (dropped it) and didn't tell me until I asked for it back. They said it just shattered (rather than break into three or four pieces which has been my experience when I have dropped a piece) and seemed to imply that there was something wrong with it. Of course, they had thrown away the pieces so there was no way for me to tell if the annealing had been bad or not. They would pay me for pieces they sold but always seemed to 'forget' to include payment for the broken bowl. Then one day I came in and picked up several pieces for a little weekend art fair out of town. As it turned out, one of their customers who knew our work from the gallery bought one of the pieces from us that I had picked up from there for the show. When I was taking stuff back to the gallery later, big mouth me blurted out about the sale. One of the gallery owners asked me in a rather frosty tone of voice if I would be giving them their commission on the sale (in retrospect, not an unfair expectation). This stunned me for a moment but I thought I recovered rather well. I told her that I would be happy to trade out their commission for what they owed me for the piece they broke since it came to the same amount.

I still have work in this gallery because they do sell my work. Our relationship was a little rocky for awhile but we have since smoothed things over.

Ellen

[Cynthia]

Ok, I have another question that might be on a larger note.

Does anyone self insure their work when it's in a gallery? I know many people just rely on the gallery's insurance, but I was talking with one of the owners of a gallery I'm in and their agent was pushing them to not insure the work and that the artist should be the one carrying the insurance. Now I kinda have a beef with this opinion because the work isn't in my control when the work is in the gallery. If this is the trend then what do we do. I have tried to get insurance for my work that is in galleries from the people who I have liability insurance with. They won't insure for breakage or theft. Ok, but the finished work that is in my studio waiting to be shipped is insured for breakage and theft.

I'm just wondering if anyone has gotten insurance for thier work that is not in thier control.

Amy

No. I can't see why you would have to.

I haven't had any galleries for several months since I decided to hidey hole up and focus on producing for a while...but am picking up a few more again and reading contracts again. I have quit consigning and am wholesaling (currently anyway as long as I can keep this working). When the work leaves my studio, it's already paid for and what ever happens to it after it leaves isn't my problem anymore, unless they forget to pay, But that's a different problem.

The time that it is with me it's my problem, and I insure to ship, but otherwise, the piece belongs to the gallery. In reading these contracts, each and every one of the galleries I've been talking to is offering insurance that covers theft, loss, breakage or damage for those who consign. If it can be repaired it will be repaired...otherwise the payment is for the percentage of the consignment already agreed upon. That's how I did business with artists when I had my small gallery space, and that's what I expect from galleries representing my work.

I wouldn't work with a gallery that expects that they don't need to take responsibility for the work. If this is a trend in consignment...don't consign with them. They need the artists or they are out of business. If they won't take care of you, why should you take care of them?

[Barbara Muth]

While I have seen that some of the galleries hosting shows assume no responsibilities for displayed art, I have not encountered that in a gallery that accepts work on consignment. I would say that if a gallery can't afford to insure my work when it is in their space, it probably isn't likely to be able to attract the people who are interested in purchasing fused glass. But, I have been wrong many times before...

[Amy Schleif-Mohr]

Points well taken.

The gallery I was speaking of before is insured but thier agent has told them to not release that information and try to have the artists insurance cover the work. This to me is like lieing...but maybe I'm wrong.

Amy

[Patricia O'Neill]

Amy,

Look at the statutes of the state where is located the gallery.

For example, in Arizona, there is a text of law that says very explicitely that the gallery is responsible (theft, fire...) of the work left in consignement by artists.
This text also says that any paperwork they may ask you to sign waiving responsibility for them, is void.
Last thing, there is a $500 fine for the gallery that does not respect this law.

I am still making my way into the american laws and regulations... I have been told that each state has different statutes. Check yours, it should be available on the web (AZ is, and I would guess this is the same for the other states).

Hope that helps...
Patricia

[Patricia O'Neill]

I have found the link for Arizona.
http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/44/title44.htm

Look into "article 12 - consignment of fine art".

I know you are not in Az, but it still hope it can help you.
Patricia

[Amy Schleif-Mohr]

Thanks Patricia. I'll check it out.

I have a pretty open dialoge going with the gallery and it's owned by artists. So they are pretty receptive. So it's not like I'm fighting with them at all. Like AZ, WI has a similar law, so I will continue discussing this topic with all my galleries.

As for Cynthia, glad to hear that you are doing wholesale. I would absolutly love to do whole sale but I haven't found a gallery willing to plunk down $1500 for a sculpture of mine yet. Only time will tell there.

Amy

[Cynthia]

I would absolutly love to do whole sale but I haven't found a gallery willing to plunk down $1500 for a sculpture of mine yet. Only time will tell there.

Amy

I hope it will happen for you Amy. My prices aren't as high as yours (yet ). $600.00 max so far for wholesale, but they took a chance on one and it sold quickly, so they picked up several more in that price range. Let's hope it's a trend . Not working at that high of a price point, I don't know what you could expect.

I expect good fortune for you. Hang in there.

[Jackie Beckman]

I really don't understand why everone is so willing to accept the notion that galleries will only do consignment. Granted, I haven't dealt with that many, but every one I have dealt with is more than willing to purchase outright - I tell them that is my "policy."

I will be happy to allow them to consign a very expensive piece, provided they have bought enough work to total the same amount as they wish to consign. I'm also more flexible if it's a place I have been doing business with for quite a while and have a very good relationship with. If I already know they sell my work easily, I don't really mind, because getting paid from a wholesale invoice in 30 or 60 days means I probably will get my money just about the same time anyway.

I also happen to have a very liberal policy about exchanging work if a piece doesn't sell for a gallery - so maybe that's why they feel comfortable with buying outright.

I personally wouldn't feel at all comfortable consigning a piece to a gallery located across the country - especially if I have no prior relationship with them. Lots of artists feel very comfortable with this arrangement though, so I could be totally off base. It just seems to me that they should have a vested interest in me and my work, and know their own gallery well enough to know if my work is a "fit" or not. They need to see something in my work that they are willing to take a chance on, and that means paying for it - at least some of the pieces, doesn't it?

I'd love to hear what others think about this topic . . . maybe I should have made a new thread.

[Delores Taylor]

I'll be shipping a large glass piece (87 seoarate sheets of painted glass up to 4 ft. long) to Europe and started phoning around locally (Boston) to find out how to insure its replacement value, which is about $10K. Have been told, We don't do that, We won't do that, Get it professionally appraised first, and finally, Self-insure. Which would mean essentially, take the loss, if there's any breakage.

Anybody have any suggestions? A fine-arts packing and shipping company would charge about $5K for packing, shipping and delivery.

Carol Cohen
<http://www.carolcohen.com

I had to have the goods professionally appraised, hunt the phone books to find someone who didn't feel glass art was a prohibitive commodity then insure at the value of the goods. There were other hassles to set yourself up as a shipper and make the carrier warm and fuzzy about you personally. Lots of regs since 9-11 and I imagine the issues vary state to state. In the back of the fine art magazines there are lots of art shipping and appraising companies that should be able to point you in the right direction. You'll need to also get with the customs folks to figure out what the specific shipping commodity code is ... it's most likely on line and you'll be given a link so you can research that.

Prepare to be in major shock as it will cost you 2-3 times the shipping cost to insure.