WarmGlass.com

Hello.

I'm considering starting a small business making kilns for the hobby and semi-professional glass, ceramics, enameling and precious metal clay market.

Not industrial or commercial.

I'm guessing the profit margins are high but the volume is low.

I believe this market is large(ish), especially for small kilns that will run straight off a standard household power point.

Has anyone else tried or considered or investigated the same thing?

Pete

I have. What I found was that the smaller the kiln, the more power per cubic foot you need. I also found building a small 120v kiln to be very expensive. Large kilns can be made pretty cheaply in comparison.

I would suggest learning a way to make fiber board panels with embedded elements. This is one of my personal goals. One of the tricks is to get reliable Chinese sources for fibers. I have consulted with several industry experts and they all tell me I can do this.

Bert Weiss wrote:
I would suggest learning a way to make fiber board panels with embedded elements.

Thank you Bert. A

re fiber board panels with embedded elements called anything else? That is, is there a Technical term or industry term for this?

Peter

Peter- check into the legal crap. Will you have to certify the kilns in Oz? Here in los estados unidos, UL listings can put a serious dent in start up costs. Business insurance must include product liability. Will you have to incorporate (ltd in AU?)?

Peter, I second what Marty says:
http://www.neca.asn.au/index.php/consum ... _yourself/

The rules are very strict here. It's not even legal to hard wire a light fixture unless you're a licensed electrician. Too bad, as there would surely be a market. Jen

Hi Peter,

definitely seconding about all the legal stuff. We manufactured electronic equipment for 10 years. Getting started did cost a bit. Apart of having to pay for assorted test to get all the licenses, we also had to supply 3 complete, fully functioning units, so they could damage them in assorted ways, including dropping one onto a concrete floor in order to check if, should they fall apart (they didn't) the customer could in some way electrocute himself/herself.

All that part really left a bad taste in my mouth. For example EMI regulations (electromagnetic interference), which are very strict for Australian made products, and compliance testing is expensive, while most imported equipment we have around the house produces measurable interference. Electrical tests are done by another agency, another set of documents, another bill (or so it was 15 years ago, when we started the business).

However, if you are prepared to go through it all and pay for it all, and keep your temper under control while wading through the paper work, and don't let your blood pressure rise at the absurdity of some of it, then, when we finally could get going, the business was good.

Therefore I am in no way discouraging you, as I think there is a market for small kilns. It is very possible, one just has to jump in with eyes wide open

All the best, seachange

Dear all, thanks for your comments. There's plenty for me to investigate! Pete

Marty wrote:Peter- check into the legal crap. Will you have to certify the kilns in Oz? Here in los estados unidos, UL listings can put a serious dent in start up costs. Business insurance must include product liability. Will you have to incorporate (ltd in AU?)?

We were discussing this at the "datalogger factory" today. UL testing is typically around $15K, per product. Any time you make a change to a product, you have to recertify.

That would seem prohibitive for an individual.

FWIW, I think the "must be installed by a licensed electrician" thing that someone mentioned varies by state here in the US.

Dana W.

JestersBaubles wrote:

Marty wrote:Peter- check into the legal crap. Will you have to certify the kilns in Oz? Here in los estados unidos, UL listings can put a serious dent in start up costs. Business insurance must include product liability. Will you have to incorporate (ltd in AU?)?

We were discussing this at the "datalogger factory" today. UL testing is typically around $15K, per product. Any time you make a change to a product, you have to recertify.

That would seem prohibitive for an individual.

FWIW, I think the "must be installed by a licensed electrician" thing that someone mentioned varies by state here in the US.

Dana W.

About recertifying, that is correct here too, though cost does depend on the type of change. Overall it makes it rather difficult - though not impossible - for an individual to start.

We did it. However, at certain point we wanted to add a line of industrial power supplies, considered it carefully and decided not to, because we didn't want to go again through all the process. As a small business, each person can only wear so many hats. We decided it would take too much time out of running the business and the on going manufacturing, besides the cost.

So the system certainly creates a lot of constrains. Some of the regulations are of course necessary, but some are plainly asfixiating without, in my opinion, providing proportional benefits to the public or the manufacturer.

It is doable, hope Peter's investigations result in him going ahead.

All the best, seachange

Peter, I think one of the biggest challenges, and the reason for the abundance of caution by the licensing authorities, is the fact that out household power is 220-240 V AC so you don't just get a little zap if you do something silly, you get seriously fried.

Have you built one for yourself already? Good luck with the project and let us know if you go ahead so we can put the word out. Jen

Im' off to a bad start.

I'm having trouble finding out what government department is involved in the safety processes and regulations. The Federal government refer me to the state government who then refer me to the electricity authority who refer me back to the Federal government!

Less government is good government!

Peter, these people could probably help :

http://www.ul.com/australia/eng/pages/aboutus/

Good luck, Jen

Peter Angel wrote:Im' off to a bad start.

I'm having trouble finding out what government department is involved in the safety processes and regulations. The Federal government refer me to the state government who then refer me to the electricity authority who refer me back to the Federal government!

Less government is good government!

Hi Peter,

This website might be of interest http://www.austest.com.au/au_nz_approvals.php. It is one of many that do the actual testing. I noticed on the left column that they are opening another facility in NSW for EMI testing. When we went through this, is was difficult to find a company that could do both, probably easier nowadays.

Comparing prices is always necessary.

You will need electrical compliance testing (Google electrical compliance testing australia), and EMI/EMC testing (Google EMI australia). This is compliance with regulations regarding emissions and interference, how your equipment's emissions affects other equipment.

I think you'll find more useful information reading through the websites of companies that do the actual testing, like the above, rather than going through the goverment departments. The bureaucrats just issue the sticker and accompanying documents based on the recommendations of the company that makes the tests.

We had to have the CE tick also, but this is only if you intend to export.

Best wishes, seachange

Thanks for the lead. Pete

Dear all. An update on this.

I have done much research and have concluded that the market for hobby kilns - any kiln that can run on a domestic power point - is both tiny and crowded.

However, the market for industrial kilns - large, multi-phase, high-current kilns - is huge and less crowded, but i don't have the space or the resources to make and market industrial sized kilns.

So I'm going to have to walk away from this one.

Thank to everyone for their help and insights.

Peter

Hi Peter,

sorry to hear this has to be the final conclusion, but happy you did all the research before investing time and money...very wise.

All the best, seachange