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I'm in the process of purchasing another kiln. It WAS going to be a 240v but medical bills got in the way... so the Paragon CS-16S is currently my first choice.

Question #1 - viewing window or bead door for peaking at slumping projects? I'm currently playing in the flame and I've made a few pretty ugly treasures but it may be in my future. Would a bead door be a good alternative to a viewing window?

Question #2 - fiber top? It scares me that the standard top won't allow me to change out the coils should the need arise. The fiber top allows for coil replacement.

Question #3 - mercury relay or keep the standard relay? I'm not opposed to replacing relays if needed but is the standard one noisy?

Thanks in advance for your opinions and personal experience!

Jeanice wrote:I'm in the process of purchasing another kiln. It WAS going to be a 240v but medical bills got in the way... so the Paragon CS-16S is currently my first choice.

Question #1 - viewing window or bead door for peaking at slumping projects? I'm currently playing in the flame and I've made a few pretty ugly treasures but it may be in my future. Would a bead door be a good alternative to a viewing window?

My vote would be to get neither. Viewing windows get cloudy after a while and it's simple to open and peek quickly. If you're planning to do beadwork you may want the bead door but otherwise you don't need it.

Question #2 - fiber top? It scares me that the standard top won't allow me to change out the coils should the need arise. The fiber top allows for coil replacement.

You can replace the elements with either type lid. Both options have the same system for holding elements in place.

Question #3 - mercury relay or keep the standard relay? I'm not opposed to replacing relays if needed but is the standard one noisy?

The noise level is the more or less the same for either type relay. Mercury relays are usually more reliable, especially for firing larger pieces that need a longer annealing time.

Thank you Mr. Walker. Your opinion means a lot!

Viewing window: With my current kilns I do open the door to peek. I thought it would be nice to have a window but not if it's going to become useless. How long do you think it takes before it becomes too cloudy? I usually run my main kiln 5-6 times a week, rarely above 1500.

Fiber top: So the purpose of the fiber top is primarily to reduce dust?

Jeanice wrote:Viewing window: With my current kilns I do open the door to peek. I thought it would be nice to have a window but not if it's going to become useless. How long do you think it takes before it becomes too cloudy? I usually run my main kiln 5-6 times a week, rarely above 1500.

I suspect how long to cloud up depends on what kinds of things you fire. Things like thinfire or glue would give off fumes that would speed the clouding. In my case it took about four or five years for the window to become useless. But since I usually open the door to peek I'm not sure why I would need a window anyhow.

Fiber top: So the purpose of the fiber top is primarily to reduce dust?

If the elements are routed in grooves (as they are in the CS16-S), then you can get dust from both a fiber and a brick top. If the elements are in quartz tubes (which they aren't in that kiln), then dust is virtually eliminated. Fiber is a bit lighter and a bit more energy efficient (neither is that big an issue in a small kiln).

My first kiln was an SC2 with a window & bead door. I love the window -- the bead door I haven't used (and at least on the SC2, it is placed to low to be a substitute for a view window).

My other two kilns, I ordered with the view window. I LOVE the view windows. I guess I haven't run my kilns long enough for them to become useless . If they get a little cloudy, I just clean them.

Personally, any kiln I ever order will have a view window if it is possible. I can "peek" into a kiln a lot longer with a view window than with opening the lid. Often, I will monitor progress with the view window -- staring as long as I need to (with glasses, of course) -- and then when I want to confirm that I am "where I need to be", I'll quickly open the lid and double-check.

Dana W.

Thank you both for posting. I appreciate your opinions and past experiences.

I highly recommend getting the fiber lid. I bought this kiln and got it with the brick lid, then about 2 yrs later replaces it with the fiber one. A brick lid can shed dust that gets embedded in your glass.

I kept wondering why a fiber lid would be better. Now you've answered my question. Does the fiber shed any particles at all? Does the brick shed terribly? I imagine that with all the expansion and contraction of the brick it would shed particles no matter how well you keep the lid clean. But won't the fiber shed too?

This style kiln is on my wish list. I am thinking the 16D would replace the need for the window and give additional functionality. Unless you think you will do beads, forgo the door. Voila! You just more than paid for the upgrade to 16D!

Yo- Mr. Walker- merc relays don't click, they hum. Quietly.
signed,
Mr. Kremer

Fiber lids don't shed at all, at least not that I've seen or heard of. Brick won't shed all the time if you keep the lid clean - but when it does it'll be a flake or two in the middle of a piece that is otherwise perfect. I've been there and to me the extra dollars for the fiber lid is a small price to pay.

Thank you all for responding! Now I have to totally rethink this...

Marty wrote:Yo- Mr. Walker- merc relays don't click, they hum. Quietly.
signed,
Mr. Kremer

Not necessarily true - Paragon uses a standard mechanical relay in their "mercury upgrades". They use the mechanical relay to turn on the controller electricity for the mercury relay. So the exact same click & clack. Seems rather pointless, since if the mechanical relay fails ON, you are back to square one on safety. And the mechanical relay is wearing out just as fast as on the mechanical relay only systems Really felt ripped off when I saw that inside the controller on the new kiln that just came for the wife - "why the &^%# is it clacking!" Pulled the screws and took a look. I'm going SSRs with backup thermo-couple controlled system against an errant over-firing after this.

Suggestion: Avoid Fostek SSRs- they have been plagued by low-quality fakes flooding the market. Amazing, a Chinese manufacturer being copied by a Chinese manufacturer.

Update - Paragon claims the mechanical relay will last longer because less power is being ran through this. I can only buy this explanation as far as the contacts life.

Marty wrote:Yo- Mr. Walker- merc relays don't click, they hum. Quietly.
signed,
Mr. Kremer

My mercuries click.

My solid state relays say nothing at all.

I am considering buying a new (preferably used) kiln, and have lots of questions - so I apologize in advance! (I hope the moderators will move this post if it needs a new thread)

UPDATE - just saw an add here for an Olympic 1814GFE so would appreciate any thoughts about that particular kiln and its RTC1000 controller. http://www.warmglass.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... 29&t=42858

I currently have an Olympic front-loading 9x11 with manual controller, made in the ‘90s. So in a sense I am a total newbie because I am unfamiliar with digital controllers, and know nothing about relays either!

I fire both Bullseye and float glass. I make everything - pendants, sculptures, wall hangings, dishes. I like to experiment.

At minimum I need an 18^ kiln, but would sure love to have a larger one.

So - here’s my questions.

-What brand or brands of kiln is/are considered most reliable, consistent, durable? My Olympic is extremely reliable but I’ve read bad reviews of their customer service lately.

-Ditto for controllers. Open to any advice on that since I don’t even know where to start.

-Relays - I’ll stick to the other thread in this forum for answers about that complex topic.

-Lid/ door - I like my front-loader and don’t think I would like a top-loader. The glider option is very appealing, though. Appreciate any words of wisdom about that.

-Location - Unless it’s really big, I would like to keep the kiln in the house. The basement level has utility room, bathroom, office and studio where my current kiln is. I don’t have a garage, but I would consider building a small shed under the deck for the new kiln if that is the best long-term solution.

Again, I know this is a long post with a lot of questions. I really appreciate any help an advice.

FusedLightStudio wrote: -What brand or brands of kiln is/are considered most reliable, consistent, durable? My Olympic is extremely reliable but I’ve read bad reviews of their customer service lately.

-Ditto for controllers. Open to any advice on that since I don’t even know where to start.

-Relays - I’ll stick to the other thread in this forum for answers about that complex topic.

-Lid/ door - I like my front-loader and don’t think I would like a top-loader. The glider option is very appealing, though. Appreciate any words of wisdom about that.

-Location - Unless it’s really big, I would like to keep the kiln in the house. The basement level has utility room, bathroom, office and studio where my current kiln is. I don’t have a garage, but I would consider building a small shed under the deck for the new kiln if that is the best long-term solution.

Again, I know this is a long post with a lot of questions. I really appreciate any help an advice.

Durability.Outside of the physical assembly and materials used for the outer metal jacket, stand and hinges, they all are basically the same Since none of them make their own kiln brick, elements, controllers or relays.

Lid/door: top loader is much easier to see if you have an item(say a drop vase) centered. Possibly easier to see into a top-loader if doing something like frit on a shelf to make lace, etc. - of course, with a front loader you might make something like that and carefully slide the shelf in. But if you fear you have jiggled things out of kilter you are back to pulling the shelf out ( Dental mirror is not to shabby to reach in there and take a look but wouldn't do much for seeing if a piece got off-center on a mold). Regarding getting a shelf in, consider this idea(mine) http://www.warmglass.com/phpBB3/viewtop ... =2&t=42869

If you have the room(that kiln isn't that big), no problem with it indoors, other than heat in summer. Outdoors exposes it to dust, humidity, and bugs, all of which can reduce the life of the electronics and kiln elements. And some relays will refuse to activate(turn on) if it is too cold.

If it is a used kiln you probably won't be calling them for service, and again, most of the parts are fairly generic.

Thanks Edpal - very helpful!!